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A 48-Year-Old Looks for New Publishing Industry Job, Finds Age Discrimination

Tales of the unemployed.


Joseph Guerriero By Joseph Guerriero
06/03/2009 -10:59 AM






Last week I met a former colleague at Starbucks—or, as one Facebook “friend” put it recently, the 2009 version of a Depression-era breadline—for a cup of coffee.  

The colleague, who I will refer to as “Jill,” was recently caught in the undertow of one of her publishing company’s (sorry, “media” company’s) recent downsizings.  “Jill” is an outstanding seller and sales leader.  A divorced mother of two beautiful girls—ages 11 and 14—she has produced great top-line results everywhere she has been employed.  The love her customers and staff members have for her is exceeded only by the degree to which they respect her.  She is, of course, very concerned for her future and that of her daughters.

“Jill” has been hunting for a new gig for the better part of six months now.  Her CV and phone demeanor have earned her a number of face-to-face interviews.  Because we have known each other for close to 20 years, she was quite open about her job hunting experience.  

She has interviewed with Web publishers, ad networks and magazine publishers, but she is not close to landing.  She had been well-compensated, but given the present state of media and the economy, she has articulated her flexibility in this regard.  I believe her.  This woman is a straight-shooter. About half-way through our meeting, she said something that sort of took me by surprise. This vital, smart, attractive woman felt she was encountering ageism. She is all of 48.

Now, I know that age discrimination exists, but if a person with the ability to sell jets to  airline companies—she was offered such a position a couple of years back—is being denied employment due to her age, then our industry has truly gone off the deep end.

One hiring manager at an ad network told her that the position for which she was interviewing—director of advertising—was perhaps a bit too complicated for her. Come on dude, you guys are not splitting the atom over there!  Anyone with an average IQ, degree of creativity and some desire can succeed in the world of digital ad sales. Great leadership, on the other hand, requires much more.  

In tough times, leadership is everything.  As a bit of a sports geek, I can site numerous instances of championship teams that won the Big One precisely because they had experienced veterans guiding less experienced players during crucial moments.  Rarely does one see a team of rookies and early-career players win a championship.  If I need someone to lay down a crucial bunt in the bottom of the eighth or drive a team downfield during the game’s final two minutes, I would prefer to rely on a veteran that has done it numerous times.

Take heed of the analogy, media world, some of you are in the bottom of the eighth or the final two minutes. Simple logic dictates that if someone has done the job many times, they have done so successfully or they would not have had the opportunity to do the job so many times in the first place.

Advertising is often perceived as a young person’s game, but skills such as steadiness in the midst of a storm, true customer-centric behavior, asking the right questions of prospects, motivating staff, forecasting and managing up, down and laterally only get better over time. George Bernard Shaw once said that youth is wasted on the young. He was so right.

So, hiring managers, the next time Jill shows up on the other side of your desk, throw all your preconceived notions away and take the blinders off.  Look at her accomplishments. Monitor her passion and intellectual curiosity. We all saw Susan Boyle at age 48 set the world on fire and become the next big thing. Did you know that Ray Kroc didn’t begin to build the McDonald’s brand until he was 52? Did you know that Handel didn’t write the Messiah until he was 68? How about Roget publishing his first Thesaurus when he was 73 or Grandma Moses picking up her first paint brush at 76?

You get the point—48, 49 or 60 for that matter are truly meaningless numbers.





Joseph Guerriero By Joseph Guerriero -- With close to 20 years experience in both b-to-b and b-to-c media, Guerriero has held top-level executive positions Crain Communications, HealthLeaders, Billboard—where he served as vice president of integrated sales and brand marketing—and most recently at Success magazine. Guerriero presently serves as VP, interactive media sales for DMD Mobile Holdings. He lives in New York City.

Post Comment / Discuss This Blog - Info/Rules

It's not just age
Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 06/03/2009 - 12:14.

It's not just age discrimination that is a concern -- there is also "employment" discrimination. Too many B2B execs are dumping their salaried sales staffs for independent contractors or rep firms. Result: the complete loss of the relationships with their advertisers. Where does the industry get these folks who believe sales people are unskilled workers, easily interchangeable. They can't be all VC folk since I see this at many non-VC backed companies as well. Your friend "Jill" shouldn't be unemployed too long. A skilled and experienced sales person can make a magazine. Hiring inexperienced reps is surely suicide. All that's needed is a return to the basic understanding the value of a company is directly related to the talent level of the employees.
Leverage Experience into Self-Employment
Submitted by Jon Mikelonis on Wed, 06/03/2009 - 12:30.

Seems reasonable that today's media companies would target younger employees, they're perceived as less expensive and more flexible. And, since quality doesn't seem to be a top priority in many American industries, experience might not matter to them. In my opinion, if you are 48 years old and didn't start planning on being "age-discriminated" 18 years prior, then you are at fault. Jill's story is a good example/warning for many 30-somethings who think employers will always be out there for them at any age. Best to calculate your migration from employee to self-employment during your 30's so you are protected for your 40's and beyond. Leverage your experience into being your own boss and age discrimination won't be an issue.
Post-50
Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 06/03/2009 - 14:27.

Laid off after 20 years as a B2B Publisher three days after my 50th birthday, I've had to scramble some for the last 5 years. I got my current gig as an NSM for a small but solid B2B title in part because I was able to successfully contend that one can usually get energy, drive and ambition OR experience and judgement in a new hire, but not often both, except in my case. But my favorite gambit came on an interview for a pure on-line sales position, for which I had no previous online experience. A 26 year Brit with spiked hair asked me what I knew about the internet . . . so I pulled from my bag copies of every public record of his personal history from Google.UK, from his time in university to where he was named captain of the company cricket team, regarding which I also produced 26 pages re: the rules of cricket, which I told him I brought alone to make sure I got the jargon right. They offered me the job. I think maybe those of us with the white hair have to prep a little differently now that we might have earlier in our careers.
40 is the new 80
Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 06/03/2009 - 14:39.

Jill is, unfortunately, right. I've seen it up close. One resume consultant told me to never list the dates of college degrees, to reorganize jobs into functional sections so that dates of employment are nearly hidden, and to be sure nothing is in chronological order. I was also told to NEVER mention that I once wrote on a typewriter, that I remember the original Life magazine or anything else like that. I was once warned (by a 30 something manager in a interview) that "we work at a really fast clip here," in a tone of voice that suggested I was too decrepit to keep up (I'm 47). Another said, "Wow, you've been working forever," as if that's a bad thing. And in another conversation, which I thought was going well, a web editor mentioned her elderly grandfather was ill, and I sympathized, saying my mother was 85...and she looked at me in horror; her GRANDfather was 72.
Ageism
Submitted by Joe Guerriero on Wed, 06/03/2009 - 18:22.

Working from top to bottom, I believe that many organizations downplay the importance of quality salespeople. Perhaps this comes from the notion in some some organizations that their content is so good it "sells itself". Since consumers don't seem to want to pay for content as much as they once did, I can't understand why the "powers that be" think advertising should be an easy sell. As Keith Crain once told me, "Selling advertising may be simple, but it's not easy". I agree that hiring inexperienced reps or leaders for that matter in a good market is suicide. I don't know what the appropriate word is during turbulent economic times. Jon, self-employment is definitely an option one should consider but I don't think the individual concerned is at fault. Many media titans - Murdoch, Redstone, etc. - with all due respect are NOT spring chickens. If one is on a senior executive career path, self-employment is often an afterthought. If not for the economic downturn which helped propel the realignment of the media eco-system, "Jill" would probably be fine and moving up in her organization. It's a shame that many of the fledgling new media entities aren't savvy enough - yet - to take advantage of her experience. Since most of the these entities will most likely fail due to sheer lack of organizational EI, Jill is probably better off continuing to hunt for those gems out there that "get it". Great points Post-50. I believe experience and passion is a powerful combination. Your comments regarding preparation should be duly noted by all of our colleagues that happen to be in the hunt.
A Revolt?
Submitted by Greg on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 15:09.

First - Jon Mikelonis your being presumptive. Businesses fail due to reasons outside of 1 person's control everyday - including self employed business owners. Second - to Jon's point perhaps, all of us now 40'ish somethings should band together and form our own clubby rep firm. We should call it HAIR - not because it has a kitchy acronym, but because if you know who Dee Snider and Vince Neil are or because you simply are missing yours, then you're likely one of us.
Over qualified?
Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 18:32.

I've been told some of the same things as 40 is the new 80 has been told. I was also "downsized" from a publishing company and have been looking for a job for months. I've been told several times that I'm over qualified for the position. I actually thought it was because of my previous salary, but maybe it's really an age thing. I'm 47 too! I've since started my own business - now that will make you old!
Funny
Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 20:21.

The problems of the 40+ are no worse than they were in the 80s... and the 90s... it's hard to break through when being interview by a 30 something... more because of the lack of objectivity and confidence of the interviewer... they just want to see someone they can feel superior to and not someone they have to actually connect with on an equal level. The youth obsession over the past 30 years also hasn't helped... it's almost as if every generation doesn't realise their seniors were in fact the same as them once, on the outside, and still the same as them on the inside.
Self Employment - Trade Skills
Submitted by Jon Mikelonis on Fri, 06/05/2009 - 12:37.

My point about protecting yourself with the pursuit of self-employment or even the pursuit of a trade skill concurrently with a "normal" career objective is supported by the fact that I'm the only one who will assign my first and last name to a reply. Is it possible that some respondents here are too concerned that upper management or industry decision makers might Google them? If so, that's a clear indication that your overall skill set might be too dependent on one industry or job function. If your skill set IS too dependent on one industry or job function, then you are at a higher risk of being unemployed whether you're 25, 35, 45, 55, or 65.
Ageism
Submitted by Joe Guerriero on Fri, 06/05/2009 - 17:03.

Hi Jon - thanks for the post. I think people are responding anonymously because of the subject nature. Some may be in the process of job hunting and perhaps do not want to be perceived by a potential employer as someone who will cry ageism. Google is a powerful tool! I don't fully disagree with your assessment but you might want to consider that many top people are top people because they are narrowly focused in their pursuit of excellence which doesn't necessarily leave time to learn a trade skill. It's the narrow focus which makes sales people so effective. Devotion to the media property and customers at hand can leave little time especially if one has family responsibilities. If what you say is true, the industry will be providing a disincentive for the narrow focus needed to succeed because everyone will cut their attention to things that will happen 10-15 years down the road. This might be where we're headed in America. I don't know, but if it is, I think it will negatively impact the media sales profession. Why sell if you're "done" before 50?
Post 50 too
Submitted by Connecticut commuter on Fri, 06/05/2009 - 17:08.

I was interviewed recently (2nd go round)for an online sales position (I happen to have solid experience selling print and eMedia)by a 29 year old. He was worried if my sales would meet their targets - I pulled my stats for the past 5 years (top producer in the company). His next concern was for my long commute from Conn. - my response taking the express is only 30 mins., plus a 5-7 min walk to their ofc around the corner from Grand Central. In the end, I was told 2 weeks later they had gone with someone else. At the time I didn't think of my age, credentials, last title, past salary etc. I think in their mind if print rebounds that I would jump ship, I covered this in my interviews and felt we had moved past it. Then again it may have been plain old chemistry. Currently I'm in the 3rd interview with a company that appreciates my accomplishments and drive for success.
Connecticut Commuter
Submitted by Joe Guerriero on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:11.

CC - I didn't mean to paint all media HR departments and recruiters with such a broad stroke. The purpose of the post was to hopefully wake up those who do subtly or subconciously discriminate. Good luck with your search!
Joe - I enjoy and respect
Submitted by Jon Mikelonis on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:52.

Joe - I enjoy and respect foliomag.com for offering a nice forum for debate on subjects that are relevant to me. By no means am I trying to be antagonistic. With that said, I think you put this effectively... "top people are top people because they are narrowly focused in their pursuit of excellence." However, that pursuit of excellence comes with a risk that can be compared to investing 100% of your savings into one stock or one narrowly-focused investment fund. Twenty plus years of dedication to one specialized job function is equivalent to putting all your eggs in one basket. I believe there are also less-defensible conclusions that can be drawn from this typical strategy for earning income. Anytime I hear a report of a person who went hysterical, insane, or worse because they lost their job, I think of a person who leveraged their life assuming the income generated from the pursuit of excellence in one field would always be there... come hell or high water. Another thought, could one person's "pursuit of excellence" be to diversify themselves across more than one field of work while being a loving spouse, parent, and all-around good community member?
Enjoy and Respect
Submitted by Joe Guerriero on Mon, 06/08/2009 - 16:36.

Jon - You make great points. I'm just not sure how diversification will play in a market that will continue to demand narrow focus particularly in these economic times. With the industry downsizing in the manner it has, employees that remain are being asked to do more. Perhaps the media employment model needs to change but I'm not sure there will be too many "takers" at this point in time. There are many new media companies that want to build sales teams that work "on the come". That's their call but I don't believe it is the way to go about building a quality sales organization.

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